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User talk:Toughpigs
The Muppet Show I wanted to fix some typos and maybe even rewrite some parts of TMS article, but I can't get in! Is it locked for some reason, or just to me? I'm coming across that a lot. Thanks! -- ErnieBert 08:11, 3 March 2007 (UTC) More questions I feel like I should make a whole page called "Ken's questions for Danny", but I just thought of a couple other things. First off, when I log in and it says that I have new messages, does that mean just on my talk page, or does that include all other pages that people have responded to me on? (I mean, "all other pages on which people have responded to me?") If I've written all over the place, how do I make sure I don't miss any? Also, what if I want to respond to something on your talk page that's now buried pretty deep? How do you find my response? Do you have to go looking for it way down on the page? On a related note, is user talk open forever? Not that I'd want to go back and reply to something from December of 2005, but I've been reading tons of people's pages, trying to get a feel for what people are interested in, and what's they're working on. And I happened to find a cover picture we need, and I wanted to somehow bring it to the surface. (Of course, I forgot where it was, on top of that, so I guess I also want to know if you can search the talk pages, too.) Well, that should do it, so now I'm going to quit bothering you and go make the 45 pages like you told me to! (Just kidding!) Thanks! -- ErnieBert 02:48, 3 March 2007 (UTC) :Hi, Ken! I'm not Danny, but I can answer the first question for you. "New messages" works just the way it does on Wikipedia. It only tracks your talkpgae, as it's otherwise impossible to determine who is speaking to whom. And that will pop up with *any* new edit to your user talk page, including your own responses, archiving of old messages, etc. If you're writing all over the place, and you want to keep up, it's basically to you. One thing which helps is to check the "Watch this page" option when editing a talk page, or any other page you want to keep tabs of. Then any new changes to it will show up in bold in "Recent changes." -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:52, 3 March 2007 (UTC) ::Amen to what Andrew said. Also, if you want to bring up an old talk page discussion, then the best thing to do is to start a new conversation on that page. As you've guessed, if you respond to an old conversation, then it's possible that it'll get missed. -- Danny (talk) 03:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC) :::Yay, we're finally on at the same time! I was going to start the singles, but I started getting sidetracked, reading stuff about Stan Freberg and Peanuts! There's too much stuff to read on here! -- ErnieBert 03:45, 3 March 2007 (UTC) redlinks Hey, you've been removing a lot of redlinks lately. I can see removing them for pages we're never going to have, but in most cases, they're helpful for two reasons: 1) it encourages someone to create the page; 2) when someone does get around to creating the page, the link is already set up... because almost no one remembers to go back and link them up. I think both are worthwhile functions of the wiki process. What do you think? —Scott (talk) 20:10, 2 March 2007 (UTC) :Good question. I admit that I haven't given it a lot of thought as a general principle. I just took the link off Are We There Yet? because it was completely mysterious -- a redlink on a disambiguation page with no image. I was confused by it when I saw it. I should have posted on a talk page instead of removing it, though. I'm sorry about that. -- Danny (talk) 20:37, 2 March 2007 (UTC) Discographies Hey, Danny, I'm putting questions on the discographies, but I can't put a talk thing on the page, because there's no edit tab! Can you make sure people are seeing my questions? Thanks! -- ErnieBert 08:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC) SS Episode Talk Hey Danny -- there are a bunch of your CTW archive questions on SS episodes that really should come out of talk (it's been two months). Do you want to stump them? I went through and took out all the ones that seem to have been answered in some form. -- Wendy (talk) 03:32, 2 March 2007 (UTC) Questions Danny, how come some people's date and times are in italics? Does that mean something? Thanks. ERNIEBERT 03:25, 28 February 2007 (UTC) :Sorry, Danny, another question. How come my name shows up sometimes as Ken, and then other times it shows as ERNIEBERT (which, by the way, I'd like to change to ErnieBert)? Thanks. ERNIEBERT 04:39, 28 February 2007 (UTC) ::Somebody locked the page for "The Gang's All Here!" LP. I was trying to read some talk pages that linked to it, but I couldn't figure out why it had been locked. I was thinking maybe somebody was vandalising it, but why that one, an obscure LP from right before the end of the label? (I figure people would be vandalising LP#1, but oh well). Anyway, I figured unlocking it would have to be done by an admin person, so I just wanted to let you know. Thanks. ERNIEBERT 06:11, 28 February 2007 (UTC) :::Hi, Ken! It's good to see you getting settled and figuring out what you need to know. Here's my answers... :::I think changing your username to ErnieBert is a good idea -- having it in all caps is a little distracting on the Recent Changes page. The only way to do that is to go to and create a new username. Then, when you sign in, just remember to sign in as ErnieBert instead of ERNIEBERT. :::As you've seen, people can use different variations on their signature. Here's how you can have a fancy signature: First, create the new "ErnieBert" username. Then click on "preferences" on the top right of the page. On the Preferences page, put this in the Nickname box: — ErnieBert (talk) Then check the "Raw signatures" box underneath, and hit the "Save" button at the bottom of the page. Once you've done that, then when you type ~~~~ on your messages, you'll have a nice-lookin' signature. :::As far as I know, The Gang's All Here! is only protected from anonymous users. If you're logged in, then you should be able to edit it. As for why someone would vandalize one page and not another... sometimes it's really random. :::Let me know if there's anything else I can help you with! -- Danny (talk) 13:24, 28 February 2007 (UTC) ::::Hey, Danny! I'm now ErnieBert! Can you guys merge everything I've done so far and have it show the new name? I wanted to change it before I started to really get into the stuff I'm working on. Thanks! By the way, "The Gang's All Here!" doesn't have an edit tab. ErnieBert 03:31, 1 March 2007 (UTC) :::::Excellent -- I'm glad you have the new username. I merged your talk pages... unfortunately, I can't merge the contribution history. I don't know what's up with "The Gang's All Here!" I unprotected it completely. Does it work now? -- Danny (talk) 13:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC) ::::::No, I still can't get into it. Scott said it might be because I'm new, but I don't know how long the "new" period lasts. By the way, how do I put the talk thing by my name? -- ErnieBert 07:32, 2 March 2007 (UTC) GD Just for you (and to fill out the tiny Stage performers category), Roger Kachel. I waited until I'd confirmed his orientation, through a playbill dedication to his partner, but as stereotypical as it is, given the fact that he was in Cats for a decade *and* designed wedding cakes, it would have surprised me otherwise. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC) :Yay, that's funny. Always nice to have another GD around. -- Danny (talk) 14:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC) ::And what about Little Richard? JuanMotaim 14:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC) :::Ooh, good point. I missed him, because Wikipedia hasn't decided whether he's gay or not yet. Despite the fact that he's said that he is. -- Danny (talk) 14:55, 27 February 2007 (UTC) Rosita's Easter on Sesame Street I've been meaning to mention that that entry makes me happy in a lot of ways. The Baby Bear thing amuses too, but apart from participating in an Easter celebration, it's actually sort of consistent with his Judaism. The braided bread in question might very well be challah. Otherwise, it seems it's probably Tsoureki, which means either his family converted and became Eastern Orthodox, or there's Greek blood in there somewhere. On Sesame, who knows? And while on the topic of Jewish Muppets and festivals, I feel compelled to share this ; I could barely understand a word, but it's Moishe Oofnik getting utterly smashed on Seder wine on Rechov Sumsum. How often, even on international Sesame shows, do you see a Muppet get intoxicated, while everyone else is heartily amused? -- Andrew Leal (talk) 15:07, 26 February 2007 (UTC) :Wow, that's out there. We should have an article on alcohol where we talk about instances when we've seen Muppets drinking. There's certainly been a number of bars and saloons. :Baby Bear's bread is definitely not challah -- they refer to it as "Easter Braided Bread". It's in a circle, with something that looks like candy set in on the top. My interpretation is that even though he's Jewish, he doesn't want to be left out of the sugarfest. :A more significant continuity problem is that the Easter egg coloring scene takes place at "Elmo's house", and there's maypole dancing in the spacious backyard at "Grover's house". These are completely suburban structures within easy walking distance of Sesame Street; Elmo obviously walks from his house to Sesame Street on his own. In The Street We Live On, they established that Elmo lived in an apartment on Sesame Street, so where the houses come from I dunno. -- Danny (talk) 15:30, 26 February 2007 (UTC) ::Well, two years have passed between Street We Live On and the book. Maybe Sesame has been targeted for urban renewal and construction of more housing. Or there's the "earth-2" theory ala [Grover's Mommy. Or, in fact, the entire book takes place within "Rosita's World," which since she is older and studied art in Mexico, is more realistic than Elmo's World. Since she has no pet fish, she is compelled instead to imagine festive food-based activities. And the bread now sounds very much like the Greek orthadox thing, which apparentlyin addition to housing candy, is meant to symbolize Christ's death and rebirth. I hope nobody told Baby Bear that. Either way, it makes me happy that the Sesame books keep churning out these precise intellectual challenges, plus sticking in Little Bird to boot. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 15:55, 26 February 2007 (UTC) :::I'm just happy that they're still making Sesame storybooks. For a couple years there, it looked like we might have seen the last of them. -- Danny (talk) 16:05, 26 February 2007 (UTC) personal citation Hey, you mentioned a while ago that there's a way to cite personal correspondence if need be. Can you take a look at User_talk:Emma#Leo_Sayer_episode? —Scott (talk) 22:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC) Stunts Hey, a thought, after adding Paul Grant, who in addition to being a goblin, was Hoggle's stunt double. I'm thinking of creating a stunt performers category, which also yields some more connections for Star Wars and Doctor Who. I doubt it will ever be huge, but I think it could work, as long as it's limited to stunt doubles for either Muppets/Creatures or roles in Henson produced films, and limited to people for whom either a specific role or title (stunt co-ordinator) can be found (since I don't see simply tossing in a bunch of anonymous stuntmen from Follow That Bird as being beneficial). As it is, apart from Grant, we already have Kiran Shah, Nick Powell, Linda Spriggs, and Ernie Reyes Jr. Thoughts? -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:14, 22 February 2007 (UTC) :It sounds good to me. If you're into it, go ahead. -- Danny (talk) 05:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC) Gobble gobble goblins Scratch that, reverse it. I should have remembered that Wookieepedia had a nice entry on Katie Purvis and some of the others, sinc ethey played Ewoks in the Star Wars franchise. But more than that, I stumbled upon a nice resource for a bunch of them. Warwick Davis' agency Willow Managament represents many of his Labyrinth co-stars (and other short-statured thespians who have worked in Creature Shop things), with photos even! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:45, 21 February 2007 (UTC) :Oooh, lovely. I'm glad you found that stuff. Short people should get some love on the wiki. -- Danny (talk) 21:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC) S'alright. He probably just wasn't paying attention. HalfShadow 17:49, 18 February 2007 (UTC) Ö Any special reason why you changed "Ö" to "O" in the index for Anders Öjebo ? In the Swedish alphabet "Ö" is the last letter. The coresponding letter in Danish and Norwegian "Ø" is second last in those Alphabets. Henrik 14:02, 17 February 2007 (UTC) :Oh, I didn't know that "Ö" was considered a separate letter -- I thought it was an accent, like "é" in French and Spanish. In general, we try to use English spelling as the standard for article titles -- so we say "Sesamstrasse" instead of "Sesamstraße". But I can see how alphabetizing Öjebo under "O" is less accurate for his native country. Do you want to put it back under "Ö"? -- Danny (talk) 14:12, 17 February 2007 (UTC) :: Putting it back would be better in my opinion. If the Scandinavian letters where to be replaced, the correct way to do it would be this. "Å" to "AA", "Ä" and "Æ" to "AE", "Ö" and "Ø" to "OE" however the last one is rarely used it's most of the times replaced with an "O" like you did it. Henrik 14:29, 17 February 2007 (UTC) :::Okay, I'll do that. Sorry for my mistake! -- Danny (talk) 14:35, 17 February 2007 (UTC) :::: No problem. Henrik 14:45, 17 February 2007 (UTC) International Grover I'm on a Hebrew roll tonight, which I guess would be kreplach or something, thanks to a friend in Israeli translating a bunch of pages, and sending me quotes and images of people. Anyway, apart from filling in the Rechov Sumsum Grover actor, I placed the sound file, removed from Paul Haenen, underneath (I tweaked the template too, so it's less ugly). This was an experiment way back in the early summer, I think, which I mostly discussed with Scott since he's the one most skittish about any media files bringing down wrath on us. I only used it there and on Bill Van Dijk (the seperate template was Scott's idea, so it wouldn't look just like any other link, and I think it works). Whether I do anymore depends on whether I can get the sharware software and so on to try to tackle it again (especially now that Ihave a whole lot of German and French Fraggles, Dinosaurs, and Muppet Shows to mine). Still, let me know when you think. And I hope you have a better weekend than you had a week. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:35, 17 February 2007 (UTC) :Oh hey, I had discussed it with you too. I guess we both forgot about it. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:39, 17 February 2007 (UTC) ::I think one potential issue is that the contributors who have been adding Youtube links will now start adding sound files. I agree that it's really cool to let people hear how the international characters sound, and I would definitely be interested in it myself. However, I'm a little concerned about the slippery slope. ::We have a good handful of users from outside the US, with access to episodes and the ability to create sound files. If we start having sound clips for international characters, then I can easily see it snowballing very quickly. Pretty soon, we have sound clips from every character on Sesamstraat, Sesam Stasjon and Plaza Sesamo -- not just the dubs, but the original characters too. And once we have a sound clip on Pancho Contreras and Pino, then why not have one on Oscar and Big Bird? If we have one for every character listed on Bill Van Dijk, then why not Richard Hunt? And while we're at it, why not have one for every song, or every Sesame cartoon segment? ::We could say that it's only for international stuff, but I think that's a pretty weak argument. Our casual readers are going to wonder why we have some and not others. ::I still agree with my original suggestion -- if somebody wants to create a separate website with sound clips from international productions, and we list it as an external link on all the relevant international pages, then that makes sense to me. But I think having sound clips on the wiki opens us up for the same kinds of problems that we've had with Youtube, song lyrics and quotes in photo captions. -- Danny (talk) 12:23, 17 February 2007 (UTC) :::Well, adding sound files is more work than YouTube links and easier to monitor. So just delete them then? I actually think an argument is fairly strong in the sense that international stuff is not easily accessible in the states on a regular basis, our international crowd aside. But if it's a problem, then sure (and I *never* had any intention of every character for van djuik; just representative ones on the international voices) . Why I asked before I went to the trouble of doing anything else. Since the "someone" you talk about would be me, unless someone else does it, and I'm not about to mess with setting up another website. So the rule is only sound files for technical stuff to prove apoint? I don't just mean the talk pages; way back, Guillermo added two ogg files to Twiddlebugs to demonstrate the way the Twiddlebug voices were altered, one of the things which inspired me to try this experiment. They're cool sounds, but the situation doesn't seem all that different to me, unless we want to make it the only exception. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 13:42, 17 February 2007 (UTC) ::::Well, I'm telling you how I feel about it. Other people might feel differently, and if you want to bring it to Current events, then we can get other people's opinions. If it came to a group discussion, I would give that same opinion, but I don't feel so strongly about it that I would really fight with people over it. ::::I didn't know about the Twiddlebug files -- or if I did, I've forgotten about it -- but my opinion would apply to those as well. That's actually a good example of the slippery slope -- Guillermo added the Twiddlebug files, so you added a couple sound files, and so on, and it's not clear where you draw the line. ::::I know that one of our unofficial rules is don't spoil somebody else's good time, so I'm sorry if I'm being a party pooper. -- Danny (talk) 13:51, 17 February 2007 (UTC) :::::Nah, this isn't just about text on pages (I admit I was so slightly rankled about the "Sesame Street Animal Films," especially since I had asked and been given the okay by you on that, and just hours not days later, rescinded; looking back, there wasn't even a consensus, I was just tired and cranky and went ahead and nuked. I think your objection probably had less to do with relevance than the fact that at that point, it wasn't much of an article; I keep digging up bits and pieces, so I'll probably take a stab at it later). So I don't think this is simply being a party pooper. I don't know if I want to bother with bringing it up on Current events; like I said, those two files are the only ones left (any other experiments I made were lost in the theft), and I don't want to go to any more work on it if it isn't going to fly. The whole ogg thing started since we've (mostly Scott and Guillermo) been using them so much on talk pages, to prove points. There's about a dozen of them floating on the Wiki now. I think the talk pages are seperate than the article; which is how I feel on the YouTube links too, fine on talk pages or user pages, where a dead link won't matter as much, but at this point, I'd just as soon yank them all. I'm sick of monitoring that, when there's both important academic stuff and more enjoyable Wiki things I could be doing. SO I certainly understand your concerns about opening up another can of worms. I do still think it's different. It's sort of like our transcript policy. Especially since it's more work to edit and upload sound filed than to add a link to some other guy's YouTube file, and if need be, a policy set up. But like I said, I also don't really have the energy or inclination to go through this whole thing if it's not going to be supported. So I wouldn't be upset, I just want to be precisely clear (you were a lot less firm back in September, but that was months ago, and as we both know, what works and doesn't work on a Wiki changes very quickly). And in that case, I might also suggest that, with the talk page oggs, in cases where the point has been completely proven and the argument settles or abandoned, at a certain point in time, the files be deleted (there's several that fall under that category right now). Guillermo even expected such a thing when it started, but none of us felt like doing it, or overlooked it, or forgot, so now there's just a lot of oggs. Unless, with certain issue slike naming, we want to keep them for future reference as well. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 14:42, 17 February 2007 (UTC) ::::::Andrew, when you and I talked about this, I want to say I recommended coming up with a written policy on how to handle audio files on the wiki. Did we ever get around to that, and if not, could we? I think it would help to understand how this is going to work in the long haul. — Scott (talk) 14:48, 17 February 2007 (UTC) :::::::Yeah, we did. And like so many things, nobody got around to it. Partially because we still weren't sure where to go with it, exactly what the policy would *be*; I'd started it as a test, and Danny's September comment seemed less disapproving, with no follow-up comment on the results. And then, like you guys, I mostly much forgot about it until Danny pulled the file. I'm pretty much capitulating on the dub voices, but since you mention it, a policy would still be useful, just to clarify re the talk page oggs. Those have become routine, and I think they are useful and less problematic than anything on actual articles is. But when the specific issue is completely resolved, like the songs that have now been identified, I'd say we should go ahead and delete them. Which is work, which is probably why we haven't done it (why I haven't), but. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 14:54, 17 February 2007 (UTC) :::::::::I agree that sound files on talk pages are okay for the purposes of clarifying a source. -- Danny (talk) 15:04, 17 February 2007 (UTC) ::::::::::Well, I'm working on a way to run a report on all .ogg files uploaded to the wiki, or hopefully some easier way. If you want to take a stab at the policy page, we can compare notes and data, and take it from there. — Scott (talk) 15:06, 17 February 2007 (UTC) Gary the Snail Should I be worried that this new user created a profile for the sole purpose to "meow" on my talk page? — Joe (talk) 14:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC) :Meow. -- Danny (talk) 15:43, 13 February 2007 (UTC) Danny's talk archive *Muppet Wiki Talk Archives